Lvl Admins

Questions about level design

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Leg-Spinner 77
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Lvl Admins

Post by Leg-Spinner 77 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:28 am

Hi guys,

I think that the lvl admins are fairly slow, in my opinion, in responding to the lvls sent in. No offense intended, but can they, you know, speed the process up a bit? They should be as active as the web admins validating wrs.....maybe this is because of the lack of lvl admins? Anyways, respond in whatever way you think. :P


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Re: Lvl Admins

Post by Lord Kacper/KACPU » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:06 am

As it was hundreds time saying to people who think the only thing admins do in their lifes, is validating. Xmoto is free. Admins don't get paid for it. It's not "job", it's hobby. If there are 20 levels in the queue, it seriously take really a lot time.

To your "miniature" level:

The gameplay is some kind of interesting, though but the dirt texture as main block texture don't b look good. Also there should add ed more gfx, excluding "house" because it's really ugly.

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Re: Lvl Admins

Post by Leg-Spinner 77 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:16 am

[quote=""Czapi""]As it was hundreds time saying to people who think the only thing admins do in their lifes, is validating. Xmoto is free. Admins don't get paid for it. It's not "job", it's hobby. [/quote]

Read above :

[quote=""Leg-Spinner 77""]
They should be as active as the web admins validating wrs.....[/quote]

That's the whole point in my post, why are web admins able to validate wrs EVERY day, whereas the lvl admins relpy weeks after the lvl has been sent in. This is why I added in : [quote=""Leg-Spinner 77""].....maybe this is because of the lack of lvl admins?[/quote]
Personally, I think that all admins should look towards lvl validating, rather than wrs. Look at it, there are barely any lvls getting accepted, and those that have been uploaded take a while before a response is written, giving rise to the opinions that X-Moto will be dead (xD) in a few years.
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Cirpacha
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Re: Lvl Admins

Post by Cirpacha » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:31 am

[quote=""Leg-Spinner 77""]
Personally, I think that all admins should look towards lvl validating, rather than wrs. Look at it, there are barely any lvls getting accepted, and those that have been uploaded take a while before a response is written, giving rise to the opinions that X-Moto will be dead (xD) in a few years.[/quote]
This is just pointless speculation. The reason why levels take a larger amount of time to get response, negative or positive, is that the decision process is a lot longer than for validating wrs. The level admins usually want second and third opinions about the levels before deciding what to do, but unfortunately not all level testers write reviews of the levels they test.

It also depends on the level. If it's clear that a level won't get validated for a specific reason, it's likely to get a response faster than a level which is just about enough for validation. But as KACPU said, it, of course, is also that the level admins don't live to validate the uploaded levels so the process isn't as fast as it would be with a hired crew.

Also for questioning the overall activity; level admins are as active as the other admins, most of the 'admining' is just testing the levels, though.

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Re: Lvl Admins

Post by Leg-Spinner 77 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:34 am

[quote=""Cirpacha""]The level admins usually want second and third opinions about the levels before deciding what to do, but unfortunately not all level testers write reviews of the levels they test.

If it's clear that a level won't get validated for a specific reason, it's likely to get a response faster than a level which is just about enough for validation. But as KACPU said, it is also that the level admins don't live to validate the uploaded levels so the process isn't as fast as it would be with a hired crew.[/quote]

1.[quote=""Leg-Spinner 77""]...maybe this is because of the lack of lvl admins?[/quote] In my opinion, there are way too little admins in the Eastern Hemisphere. I live in Oz, but I have to wait till the next day to see if my wr is validated. And the admins that ARE in the Western Hemisphere are all admins who go for wrs. Take u for example, Cirpa. Majority of the time, I see my lvls rejected and the inputs are all from tumo, KACPU and Nico. That's just about it.

2.The problem is, with lvl making, I have no idea whatsoever which kind of gfx u guys want. There's no tutorial about gfx or the like. In fact, the only help in gfx there is is when I resort to asking the forum. It shouldn't be like that. This is the reason why u guys are annoyed when I send in lvls with supposedly crappy gfx, and I don't get any help. I wanna send my lvl to some experienced lvl maker to help but no-one wants to. Period. Can't do anything about it except screw levels up. :|

3.The lvl admins often spend time getting wrs. Cirpa is one I know, pishi used to and etc. They're just not active enough, with unnhuelu included. :P
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Re: Lvl Admins

Post by unnheulu » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:39 am

I don't play xmoto as much as I used to, these days I prefer to let Cirpa/tumo do it for me as they make better decisions than I'll ever make, partly due to experience.

I occasionally comment on levels, once every week or two, and trust me when I say a lot more than you think goes on behind the scenes. Also remember that we all have lives outside xmoto, and our own hobbies and stuff to...
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Re: Lvl Admins

Post by Leg-Spinner 77 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:25 am

[quote=""unnheulu""]Also remember that we all have lives outside xmoto, and our own hobbies and stuff to...[/quote]

But unn, yeah people have to live their own lives...but why do they have the time to get wrs instead of doing the X-Moto community a favour and start lvl adminstration? This is the question I have.
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Re: Lvl Admins

Post by Cirpacha » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:02 pm

[quote=""Leg-Spinner 77""] In my opinion, there are way too little admins in the Eastern Hemisphere. I live in Oz, but I have to wait till the next day to see if my wr is validated. And the admins that ARE in the Western Hemisphere are all admins who go for wrs. Take u for example, Cirpa. Majority of the time, I see my lvls rejected and the inputs are all from tumo, KACPU and Nico. That's just about it.[/quote]
It may be that there aren't really any admins in your area but do we really need more? It isn't a long time to wait for some hours and the wr validation is fast enough as it is now.

Also, no need to take it to personal level, so I'll ignore that. I could be more active, thank you.

[quote=""Leg-Spinner 77""]The problem is, with lvl making, I have no idea whatsoever which kind of gfx u guys want. There's no tutorial about gfx or the like. In fact, the only help in gfx there is is when I resort to asking the forum. It shouldn't be like that.[/quote]
When a level is rejected, there is an explanation why the level isn't good enough for validation. If you can't figure out yourself why the gfx or gameplay is subpar, you are always free to ask the admin who rejected your level via email.

There's no tutorial for gfx, as there isn't one for gameplay. That is because inkscape as a level editor is so fantastically free you can pretty much do anything. If everyone followed a tutorial the levels would end up looking the same, like in Elastomania. It is known that everyone has a different taste in what they consider aesthetic, but looking at the recently validated levels should give some pointers as to what level your gfx should approximately be up to.

[quote=""Leg-Spinner 77""]
This is the reason why u guys are annoyed when I send in lvls with supposedly crappy gfx, and I don't get any help. I wanna send my lvl to some experienced lvl maker to help but no-one wants to. Period. Can't do anything about it except screw levels up. :|[/quote]
This is just your take on things. If you don't think you can improve, you probably won't, as in fact, you aren't trying. No one was adept in level making when they started. Take a look for example at the first level I ever made: Cirpachameleon. It has very simple gfx consisting of only different colored blocks.

This is also to remind that the gfx doesn't need to be complex. The gfx, though, should fit nicely with the gameplay and borders of the level and it shouldn't look messy.

If you want the help of other level makers you should remember that your gameplay has to be up to the level that they want to work on it. It isn't really fair if someone makes a rather crappy gameplay and then someone with experience in gfx makes a fantastic gfx for the level. It still won't get validated.

[quote=""Leg-Spinner 77""]The lvl admins often spend time getting wrs. Cirpa is one I know, pishi used to and etc. They're just not active enough, with unnhuelu included. :P[/quote]
You already mentioned this but yeah, the admins want to play the game just as much as the other players. You can't really force other players to spend less time gaming and more time doing something else if they enjoy the game. Pishi and unn don't really play much anymore, though.

To answer the question before my post if it still isn't clear:
Because the level admins still want to be able to enjoy the game too. When we were asked to be admins we didn't agree to replace all our gaming time with admining. I didn't really get what you meant by starting lvl administration, though. As it has been said many times before, the admins don't just idle and occasionally press one button to validate or reject wr/level, there is more to it.

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Re: Lvl Admins

Post by unnheulu » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:05 pm

WR validation is a lot easier than level validation. For WR validation there is que's which aid an admin to find out the probability of the record being cheated without having to watch it - if it is by Krzys, Cirpa, philip (I wish :P), etc we know that it probably isn't cheated anyway due to them not wanting to damage their reputation.

In terms of levels, even me as an admin with around 50 validated levels I still have levels rejected, ASDF has levels rejected, all the admins put their own levels through multiple revisions; we cannot in the same way guarantee a level will be good than we can a wr not cheated, so the process takes longer. Typically Cirpa and tumo seem to wait for 3 comments between validating, I'll normally wait for one comment + another validator (not commenter) giving the go ahead before validating. Maybe Cirpa or tumo could listen to their own opinion more often and not wait for so much feedback, but personally I'd rather wait longer for higher quality levels than have the quality compromised...
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Re: Lvl Admins

Post by Leg-Spinner 77 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:47 pm

[quote=""unnheulu""]Maybe Cirpa or tumo could listen to their own opinion more often and not wait for so much feedback, but personally I'd rather wait longer for higher quality levels than have the quality compromised...[/quote]

Funny, coz I sent a lvl in a while ago and look at the reply I received. xD

Leg-Spinner 77 - Vertical Wall Tutorial
nicothechamp:
a pretty fun level. make the background move slower than the gameplay block, and perhaps union the blocks
tumo: It's nothing new and this trick is used already in way over 10 lvls

That was it. I did what Nico suggested, lvl was rejected again. -__-
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Re: Lvl Admins

Post by Cirpacha » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:56 pm

And this
[quote=""Leg-Spinner 77""]tumo: It's nothing new and this trick is used already in way over 10 lvls[/quote]
was the key.

The gameplay wasn't just up to it. But seriously, if you are confused why your levels get rejected, contact the admin via email like I suggested.
Last edited by Cirpacha on Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lvl Admins

Post by Leg-Spinner 77 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:58 pm

[quote=""Cirpacha""]And this
[quote=""Leg-Spinner 77""]tumo: It's nothing new and this trick is used already in way over 10 lvls[/quote]
was the key.

The gameplay wasn't just up to it.[/quote]

The point is : The lvl is a tutorial, look at FlapyGermany's Frontflip Tutorial. The trick is used in just about EVERY lvl. But becoz it's a tutorial with plenty of script, and being him, it gets validated.
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Re: Lvl Admins

Post by Cirpacha » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:06 am

[quote=""Leg-Spinner 77""]
The point is : The lvl is a tutorial, look at FlapyGermany's Frontflip Tutorial. The trick is used in just about EVERY lvl. But becoz it's a tutorial with plenty of script, and being him, it gets validated.[/quote]
Please, stop acting like you're being treated differently. You can't compare two levels that are actually completely different.

Flapy's level teaches you how to do the specific trick, a trick, that in fact isn't really used in any level as part of the supposed gameplay route. The scripting is just a plus so you can play in ugly mode too and still follow the instructions but I won't really get any further into that.

The problem with tutorial levels is usually that people think that they can make simple gameplay and get the level validated with ease. Tutorials should actually teach how to do a certain trick, not just show some random gameplay. Trainings on other hand should have the certain trick used in many different ways so the player gets used to doing the trick.

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Re: Lvl Admins

Post by Leg-Spinner 77 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:11 am

[quote=""Cirpacha""]The problem with tutorial levels is usually that people think that they can make simple gameplay and get the level validated with ease. Tutorials should actually teach how to do a certain trick, not just show some random gameplay. Trainings on other hand should have the certain trick used in many different ways so the player gets used to doing the trick.[/quote]

The lvl I sent was a simple level which taught how to drive up vertical for a short while. In my opinion, this is a rather necessary trick to learn as lvls such as Skillz Needed Series contains the trick, and it's the only way to do the lvl. All I edited was the height of the wall and it's not like there's any other way to do the lvl.
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Re: Lvl Admins

Post by Cirpacha » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:22 am

[quote=""Leg-Spinner 77""]
The lvl I sent was a simple level which taught how to drive up vertical for a short while. In my opinion, this is a rather necessary trick to learn as lvls such as Skillz Needed Series contains the trick, and it's the only way to do the lvl. All I edited was the height of the wall and it's not like there's any other way to do the lvl.[/quote]
Actually, the level didn't teach one to drive up vertical walls. It just had the trick used in the gameplay. A tutorial for the trick would for example be like MTK's level 'Special Training'. First there would be a not-so-steep wall you have to drive up, then you progress to a little steeper and so on. -- Or first you have a smooth curve between the floor and the wall and then as you progress the curve becomes smaller until it is removed.

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