nice game, but... please fix the bike

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kurtilein
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nice game, but... please fix the bike

Post by kurtilein » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:33 pm

im from germany, i learned english in school, so there may be some mistakes in my post...

the over all appearance of the game is really good, i like the graphics and music and menus and everything. well done!

i have been playing elastomania for a long time, but this game has no updates, no support, its not open source code, and so im searching for an alternative. when i found xmoto i thought this would be the perfect game for me, until i used the brake for the first time.

the motorcycle just isnt doing what it should do. ok, you really dont need to copy the elastomania-bike, its okay when your bike is behaving more or less different. at the beginning i thought i would learn how to handle the bike in Xmoto, and that the fun would start as soon as i know how it works, but now i believe that there are some serious problems with the bike that somewhat destroy the whole game and need to be fixed.

the main problems i have experienced are:

- the bike does not absorb any energy. or at least it seems so. when the bike collides with the ground just a little bit then the shock is not absorbed and the wheels go in the air. the bike is just too jumpy, you easily lose ground contact and then most of the momentum and speed is lost when driving uphill. i think this is also the reason why you die so often and so easily in xmoto. its hard for me to explain this in english, i hope you can understand what i mean.

- the brake is not working right. the bike is not standing still when using the brake. the friction between the ground and the wheels should be massive when using the brake, 100% friction with zero slipping would be perfect. a brake that causes perfect friction between ground and wheel should be the goal. when using a brake like this, the energy and speed of the motorcycle would be absorbed by the flexibility of the bike and would temporarily be stored as inner tension, and could then be used by a skilled player. the brake would then not just be used to slow down, but would be used to turn speed into rotation, rotation into speed, change the direction of the bike, etc.

an example: imagine a flat level with a wall at one side, like this:

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when driving against the wall with high speed you could rotate the bike so that the front wheel goes up before you hit the wall, then pull the brake upon impact, turn the bike, and use the energy that is now temporarly ``stored´´ inside the bike to accellerate in the opposite direction. you could perhaps also use the energy to jump into the air. in Xmoto, this is simply not possible, driving against walls isnt fun in this game. all speed is lost when changing direction, the only thing you can do is to avoid hitting your head and getting the wheels to the ground quickly. this is only one example, but it affects the entire gameplay.

- only a minor problem: rotating the bike causes some kind of cooldown, there is a delay until you can rotate again... well, its the same in elma, i got used to it, but i still dont like it. of course there has to be some limitation to avoid spinning to much (and rotating can be used to get speed, so, without limitations players would abuse it). but here could be some room for new ideas.

perhaps something like this: you have some kind of an energy bar, and when you rotate then all the energy will be used for rotating. after rotating, the energy bar will stay at zero for 0.2 seconds, then it will refill quite quickly at the beginning, so that it is 50% full after 0.5 seconds. then the refilling could slow down a bit, so that 100% is reached after 2-3 seconds. with this system the time-limitation would not be necessary, and one hit on the button would cause one pulse of rotation. holding the button for a longer period of time would have no effect.



i hope this helps to explain the problems, and i have to say it once again: the physics of the bike in xmoto more or less ruin the game. everything else is really nice. this could be a really good game. i will check for future updates and visit this forum, but i think i will continue playing elma. elma has zero support, zero updates, is not open source, too old graphics, bad music and sounds, few options, no new internal levels, ... elma is a dead game, its like playing on a graveyard, but there is no alternative. xmoto could be it. i have some kind of a feeling that im not the only one...

volca
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Post by volca » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:11 pm

I must say I agree with you. The problem I see is that the highscores would be invalid after this change.
I think the changes would basically mean changing the spring/damping parameters. I was trying to gain the characteristics you mention, but was only partially successful. The changes were made in the PhysSettings.h file.

There is a mention about the suspension in the wishlist:
Bike tuning - The suspension screams to be adjusted!
so hopefully this will get updated...

Jesant13
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Post by Jesant13 » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:50 pm

Good idea!

zebra
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Post by zebra » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:31 pm

I agree with kurtilein. I have been playing elma now nearly 10 years and accustomed to its physics. After trying elma, X-moto physics simply suck.

Also, it is not a dead game at all. Not long ago an online mod called Belma was released (see http://b.attle.info/ and http://zworqy.com/elmaguide/index.php?p=general to download it, more info in IRCnet channel #ballelma)
You need the full version of the game before you can play it.

Elma isn't free but you can get it fairly easily. I don't see any other downsides in it.

octal
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Post by octal » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:26 am

brakes should be fixed!
also, hitting brake button while accelerating stops the acceleration completely until i release and press again the acceleration button, and it is true for brakes too. i think that when you release the brake you should continue accelerating if you are still holding the button.
program code in Input.cpp around string 500 handles relevant inputs. AvovA says that it will be fully rewritten soon in 0.4.1 so i'm not touching it yet.

The only dude
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Post by The only dude » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:44 pm

i'll add that, beeing able to brake while accelerating.

http://todo.xmoto.tuxfamily.org/index.p ... ask_id=276

zsamkjzsamkj
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its supposed to be like that!

Post by zsamkjzsamkj » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:31 pm

i think x-moto is supposed to be like that with the brakes so u cant just sit there on a hill. its supposed to make it harder! and elastomania is way unrealistic compared to x-moto

zsamkjzsamkj
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BIKES!!!!!!!!!!WOOTOWOOT!

Post by zsamkjzsamkj » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:57 am

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tisb0b
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Re: its supposed to be like that!

Post by tisb0b » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:40 am

[quote=""zsamkjzsamkj""]i think x-moto is supposed to be like that with the brakes so u cant just sit there on a hill. its supposed to make it harder! and elastomania is way unrealistic compared to x-moto[/quote]

Realism should not overshadow the underlying premise behind all games and that is the 'fun' factor if adding this feature makes the game more fun which I think it will then why the hell shouldn't it be implemented?

People do not play games to be reminded of reality they play games to escape from reality. This game should be a fun over the top bike game that sees reality and then shits on it. I don't see why tweaking the underlying physics model to make the game more fun can't be done besides the precious WR's which is kind of a moot point.

The only dude
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Post by The only dude » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:48 pm

learn c++, send us a patch, and it will be fine.
see viewtopic.php?p=1498

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pishi
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Re: nice game, but... please fix the bike

Post by pishi » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:31 pm

the motorcycle just isnt doing what it should do. ok, you really dont need to copy the elastomania-bike, its okay when your bike is behaving more or less different. at the beginning i thought i would learn how to handle the bike in Xmoto, and that the fun would start as soon as i know how it works, but now i believe that there are some serious problems with the bike that somewhat destroy the whole game and need to be fixed.
xmoto ? elma, sorry to say. i personally can't play elma, since i can't control the bike at all. i'm not saying that it should be fixed though. there are many players who have become used to those physics, and changing it would make the game terrible to them. if you don't like it, as tod said, learn some code
- the bike does not absorb any energy. or at least it seems so. when the bike collides with the ground just a little bit then the shock is not absorbed and the wheels go in the air. the bike is just too jumpy, you easily lose ground contact and then most of the momentum and speed is lost when driving uphill. i think this is also the reason why you die so often and so easily in xmoto. its hard for me to explain this in english, i hope you can understand what i mean.
easy to avoid (if i understood correctly): http://www.zshare.net/video/95675733fdec9e72/
- only a minor problem: rotating the bike causes some kind of cooldown, there is a delay until you can rotate again... well, its the same in elma, i got used to it, but i still dont like it. of course there has to be some limitation to avoid spinning to much (and rotating can be used to get speed, so, without limitations players would abuse it). but here could be some room for new ideas.
here's the "example level" that you're thinking of, going against the wall and using brake is not how one accelerates after hitting a wall. only using one wheel is much more effective (again, that is if i understood you): http://www.zshare.net/video/95675755bd1539c7/
- only a minor problem: rotating the bike causes some kind of cooldown, there is a delay until you can rotate again... well, its the same in elma, i got used to it, but i still dont like it. of course there has to be some limitation to avoid spinning to much (and rotating can be used to get speed, so, without limitations players would abuse it). but here could be some room for new ideas.
the rotating of the bike is very easy to get used to. if you can't figure out how long it takes until you can rotate the bike again, you honestly haven't played it for long enough. there's three stages of rotation for a player starting off at a standstill: slow, medium, and fast. giving them all numbers, slow = 1, medium = 2, fast = 3. to achieve slow, you need 1 rotation, for medium, 2, and fast, 3. if you're on 3, you would need 3 counter-rotations to get back to a nearly motionless state, 2 rotations to get from medium, etc: www.zshare.net/video/9567577719500a81/

hope this helps

Hiddo
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Re: nice game, but... please fix the bike

Post by Hiddo » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:18 am

Haha pishi, why are you seriously replying to this thread?
You are too nice.

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